Hello! Welcome to the third edition of Kitchen Projects, a recipe development and cooking journal by me, Nicola Lamb. I’m a pastry chef and recipe developer and bakery consultant based in London. Thank you so much for subscribing - I’m so excited to share this space with you.
I loved following your journey of the Natas on instagram and now reading all the details is a treat. I've never had Pasteis de Nata and I don't have an excuse anymore since I'm at a stone's throw away from Portugal. Always wanted to visit and now I have an even better reason to go visit. In Bilbao, where I am from, we have Pasteles de Arroz, which funnily enough doesn't have any rice in it and it's really similar to Pasteis de Nata. I ate them all the time while growing up, along with bollos de mantequilla. This newsletter reminded me of my childhood and those pasteles de arroz. Can't wait to try some pasteis de nata. Great read ✨
Thank you so much. It's wonderful to read about your experiences. I visited Bilbao (before San Sebastian) and absolutely LOVED IT a few years ago. Thank you for sharing the info about Pasteles de Arroz. It looks a bit like a french flan? Which I'm also a huge fan of. GOD I LOVE CUSTARD. Thanks for the support x
Never had a french flan, another dessert to add to the list of things to try. Custard is the best, you can never go wrong with a custard based dessert. So happy you loved Bilbao and San Sebastian is so lovely too.
Hi Nicola! I’m about to give this a go at my deli (very excited to see how it goes!!). Just wanted to ask where I can find the step on cooking out the custard? Thank you!!
Hi Nicola, top work and very well laid out recipe! I don't suppose you could hazard a guess how to cook these in an actual deck oven? Lucky enough to have one but at max temp it burns the base before the custard can set. Ideally looking for percentage of stone heat vs overhead heat. It can do 400c and both elements can be set in increments of 10% (like say 70% stone and 30% top heat for pizza). Thanks! Aran
Hi Nicola! Subscribed to KP+ two days ago and already made four of your recipes (cornflake shortbread bars, brownies, basque cheesecake, and this). Your posts are so thorough and I learn so much from baking through them! And the recipes themselves have all been amazing.
I made these and the pastry definitely turned out better than when I’ve made them in the past. But I also ended up with scrambled filling :(. Some potential causes I’ve considered:
- I added in the yolks when the milk and sugar had already cooled down a lot
- I let it sit in the fridge for a day before baking
- I used 260 c fan - highest my oven goes
- I took them out a bit early (my smoke alarms went off! So sad)
- I did something wrong with the milk, starch, and flour heating - maybe didn’t heat long enough? I sifted everything in
Any thoughts? Would love your help - hoping to make these again for friends soon!
I've made these a few times now and they're absolutely delicious! I think I am scrambling the eggs a bit though, it's definitely not as smooth as yours. Am I perhaps not cooking the starch enough? I am weighing everything, so I think the proportions should be correct... I do let the sugar syrup sit overnight so it is cool when I whisk it in.
I have an Ooni pizza oven with the option to use either wood or gas and thought that the pizza oven would be perfect for Natas. It’s possible to fire it up to 500C. What temperature should I aim for? Is there anything in the recipe that I should adjust for because of a higher temperature?
As someone who is developing a methodology for cooking these in an Ooni oven, yes you absolutely can get fantastic Natas out of the Ooni.
I recommend gas for temperature control.
From my research, Natas bake mostly from the bottom with a very high radiant heat. The deck ovens allow you to specify the 'intensity' of the heat coming from top, bottom and sometimes zones within the oven while maintaining a consistent inside temp. Thus, the intensity is usually higher on the bottom with very, very high ambient temps. At least from all the videos I've been able to watch and some resources from 'authentic' recipes I've seen. I have never personally used a deck oven so that may not be entirely accurate.
However, you'll see places like Belem where the bottoms are almost blackened (Not exactly my preference but just an example). The bottom heat also contributes to how they souffle. Too much top heat and the tops will simply bubble and brown too quickly. The Ooni is pretty good at replicating this.
My current method is as follows:
- Heat stone to at least 750F.
- Turn off oven as Natas go in.
- Rotate every few minutes at a quarter turn each for about 8 minutes. If you don't have an oven door (like a 3rd party one you find on Etsy that allows the oven to heat up faster) then this step will probably take more than 8 minutes. It also depends on the material of your tray and tart cases. Really, you need enough time for tops to set, the custard to souffle, and the pastry to brown all while not burning the tops. That's the dance. The issue with the Ooni is the large temperature gradient from the back to the front. I haven't 100% nailed this part yet but it seems like faster, quarter turns, will yield the most even distribution between back of the oven and front of the oven.
- Once tarts are mostly done turn the oven back on the lowest heat or use the 'ultra low mode hack' (You can google it.) and cook until the tops have browned properly. Or until your desired level of browning.
Another issue is the material of the tart trays and the baking tray or sheet. They have to be able to withstand the temps of the Ooni without under or overcooking the tarts.
They have a narrower base but overall are pretty good and surprisingly the stainless performs okay for browning the pastry.
I also am testing A36 steel plate vs 3003 grade aluminum plate for the baking 'tray'. The authentic trays blacken with use which makes me think they're carbon steel. However, since you want the bases to get a lot of heat to properly cook the bases and you're running against the clock with the Ooni with essentially ambient heat, aluminum might work best. I haven't fully tested this yet.
This is just a starting point and I haven't fully fleshed out my method but my results are very good so far.
Hey Kevin! YES absolutely. I think I'll keep the Sunday editions to a deep dive on a recipe and perhaps plan a mid-week edition for more things like how to keep your recipes on excel!!
I loved following your journey of the Natas on instagram and now reading all the details is a treat. I've never had Pasteis de Nata and I don't have an excuse anymore since I'm at a stone's throw away from Portugal. Always wanted to visit and now I have an even better reason to go visit. In Bilbao, where I am from, we have Pasteles de Arroz, which funnily enough doesn't have any rice in it and it's really similar to Pasteis de Nata. I ate them all the time while growing up, along with bollos de mantequilla. This newsletter reminded me of my childhood and those pasteles de arroz. Can't wait to try some pasteis de nata. Great read ✨
Thank you so much. It's wonderful to read about your experiences. I visited Bilbao (before San Sebastian) and absolutely LOVED IT a few years ago. Thank you for sharing the info about Pasteles de Arroz. It looks a bit like a french flan? Which I'm also a huge fan of. GOD I LOVE CUSTARD. Thanks for the support x
Never had a french flan, another dessert to add to the list of things to try. Custard is the best, you can never go wrong with a custard based dessert. So happy you loved Bilbao and San Sebastian is so lovely too.
Hi Nicola! I’m about to give this a go at my deli (very excited to see how it goes!!). Just wanted to ask where I can find the step on cooking out the custard? Thank you!!
Thank you for this, Nicola! How might you modify this to get closer to a Chinese bakery style egg tart?
Hi Nicola I’ve got a pizza oven that goes to like 400 c. What are your thoughts on using the pizza oven to make these
Hi Nicola, top work and very well laid out recipe! I don't suppose you could hazard a guess how to cook these in an actual deck oven? Lucky enough to have one but at max temp it burns the base before the custard can set. Ideally looking for percentage of stone heat vs overhead heat. It can do 400c and both elements can be set in increments of 10% (like say 70% stone and 30% top heat for pizza). Thanks! Aran
Hi Nicola! Subscribed to KP+ two days ago and already made four of your recipes (cornflake shortbread bars, brownies, basque cheesecake, and this). Your posts are so thorough and I learn so much from baking through them! And the recipes themselves have all been amazing.
I made these and the pastry definitely turned out better than when I’ve made them in the past. But I also ended up with scrambled filling :(. Some potential causes I’ve considered:
- I added in the yolks when the milk and sugar had already cooled down a lot
- I let it sit in the fridge for a day before baking
- I used 260 c fan - highest my oven goes
- I took them out a bit early (my smoke alarms went off! So sad)
- I did something wrong with the milk, starch, and flour heating - maybe didn’t heat long enough? I sifted everything in
Any thoughts? Would love your help - hoping to make these again for friends soon!
I've made these a few times now and they're absolutely delicious! I think I am scrambling the eggs a bit though, it's definitely not as smooth as yours. Am I perhaps not cooking the starch enough? I am weighing everything, so I think the proportions should be correct... I do let the sugar syrup sit overnight so it is cool when I whisk it in.
Making this tomorrow on a Zoom call with my sisters who live in India! So excited. Thanks for the detailed recipe.
We’re going to use muffin tins / tins fashioned out of foil. Wish us luck :D
I have an Ooni pizza oven with the option to use either wood or gas and thought that the pizza oven would be perfect for Natas. It’s possible to fire it up to 500C. What temperature should I aim for? Is there anything in the recipe that I should adjust for because of a higher temperature?
Thanks,
/Kenny
As someone who is developing a methodology for cooking these in an Ooni oven, yes you absolutely can get fantastic Natas out of the Ooni.
I recommend gas for temperature control.
From my research, Natas bake mostly from the bottom with a very high radiant heat. The deck ovens allow you to specify the 'intensity' of the heat coming from top, bottom and sometimes zones within the oven while maintaining a consistent inside temp. Thus, the intensity is usually higher on the bottom with very, very high ambient temps. At least from all the videos I've been able to watch and some resources from 'authentic' recipes I've seen. I have never personally used a deck oven so that may not be entirely accurate.
However, you'll see places like Belem where the bottoms are almost blackened (Not exactly my preference but just an example). The bottom heat also contributes to how they souffle. Too much top heat and the tops will simply bubble and brown too quickly. The Ooni is pretty good at replicating this.
My current method is as follows:
- Heat stone to at least 750F.
- Turn off oven as Natas go in.
- Rotate every few minutes at a quarter turn each for about 8 minutes. If you don't have an oven door (like a 3rd party one you find on Etsy that allows the oven to heat up faster) then this step will probably take more than 8 minutes. It also depends on the material of your tray and tart cases. Really, you need enough time for tops to set, the custard to souffle, and the pastry to brown all while not burning the tops. That's the dance. The issue with the Ooni is the large temperature gradient from the back to the front. I haven't 100% nailed this part yet but it seems like faster, quarter turns, will yield the most even distribution between back of the oven and front of the oven.
- Once tarts are mostly done turn the oven back on the lowest heat or use the 'ultra low mode hack' (You can google it.) and cook until the tops have browned properly. Or until your desired level of browning.
Another issue is the material of the tart trays and the baking tray or sheet. They have to be able to withstand the temps of the Ooni without under or overcooking the tarts.
I have not been able to source authentic trays yet but these are a pretty good substitute: https://www.luisa-paixao.us/collections/authentic-kitchenware-portugal/products/stainless-steel-pasteis-de-nata-baking-tins
They have a narrower base but overall are pretty good and surprisingly the stainless performs okay for browning the pastry.
I also am testing A36 steel plate vs 3003 grade aluminum plate for the baking 'tray'. The authentic trays blacken with use which makes me think they're carbon steel. However, since you want the bases to get a lot of heat to properly cook the bases and you're running against the clock with the Ooni with essentially ambient heat, aluminum might work best. I haven't fully tested this yet.
This is just a starting point and I haven't fully fleshed out my method but my results are very good so far.
Here's a few pictures: https://imgur.com/a/7NsFTQ1
Hope that helps!
The other day my sister bought us some egg tarts from Chinatown. Forgot they don’t taste like pastel de natas, was very disappointing.
Will definitely give this a go! Would you ever consider showing how you put together your spreadsheets?
Hey Kevin! YES absolutely. I think I'll keep the Sunday editions to a deep dive on a recipe and perhaps plan a mid-week edition for more things like how to keep your recipes on excel!!
Wow! So detailed. Such a treasure. Thanks so much Nicola♥️
Thank you Cherida, so appreciate of your support always <3