Hi Nicola! I'm not sure if this has been discussed in the newsletter at some point...is there anything one should know about baking genoise in a sheet pan instead of a cake pan? I expect the baking time to be vastly different, but other than that–any pointers? I've never baked cake in a sheet pan and I really want to try it!
Hey zak! Yes I have done it - it works so well! For a standard 40 x 27cm baking tray I use a 3 egg genoise batch. For the smaller swiss roll pans that are here in the UK, a 3 egg genoise is better. To bake, check after 15 minutes, but it could take up to 20-22 depending on your oven. I always press the cake to see if it feels 'fizzy' - a sign of there being unbaked batter. I also wrote about a fluffy fatless sponge in this edition which is baked in sheets: https://kitchenprojects.substack.com/p/kp-the-jelly-and-custard-cake
It's a slightly different mix but does a great job in cakes!
Hey Nicola, I’m about to trial this for a wedding cake I’m making in may (alike to swedish midsommar cake) and wondered if you could confirm your 3 egg vs 3 egg in comment above? Did you mean 4 and 3 or 3 and 2 or indeed both 3? Planning to use 8x12 and double them up to make it 16x12 in final assembly. Thanks!
Hi, lovely post! however, my cake wasn't a success. Tired it twice and both times it had a rubbery bottom layer :(. How do I get it right? please help.
NOOOO this is so sad! Right, I would reduce the butter as this stage can be where you loose air. It could also just be a case of the folding. I wish I could be there in the kitchen with you to help you fold! That ULTRA GENTLE 'D' motion is where its at. My genoise skills definitely improved with practice.
HI! Sorry for the delay. Yes you can make fatless sponges for sure - well, they aren't totally fatless since the yolks are bringing that element. You can also use oil, yes, which brings a slightly different texture and flavour. I do an olive oil genoise in my citrus cake recipe!
IM SO SORRY THIS IS LITERALLY A YEAR LATE. You can make well in advance! Happy for at least 24 hours - even better since the flavours meld. So sorry Megan xxxx
Thank you so much for taking the time to make this super detailed recipe, along with a fascinating interview! I tried making this cake pretty much straight away, but I'm afraid I still can't make a genoese! I followed everything, but my cake had a slightly dense layer at the bottom (overmixing) along with unfolded flour pockets throughout (undermixing). I have no idea how I managed that, but I think I'll just have to accept I can't make genoese and move to Tibet to farm goats or something...
I'll see you in Tibet! I've tried twice now and had the same problem- rubber disc at the bottom and lumps of flour throughout 😬. I'm going to try and slice the bottoms off and stack it up anyway. I just want to eat cake already!
did you figure out the reason? I have just tried it the second time and again - rubber disc at the bottom, no flour lumps for me this time. though I did notice, that (I baked in two tins) the tin that got the "lower half" of my dough mixture, had more rubber disc than the other one. I just don't quite understand where I am going wrong.
I had the same problem!! I wonder if I didn’t do the liaison batter quite right? I’ve made other genoise and haven’t had the same issue. I also wonder whether it’s becAuse there is less sugar in this recipe so it is less forgiving? Not sure!
ELISHA......I had the exact same issue! I was being as gentle as possible with the folding and yet somehow over and under mixed the ingredients together.
While I'm sad both of our cakes didn't exactly work out, I'm glad I wasn't he only one, haha.
Are you familiar with Kantaro, the Sweet Toothed Salaryman? I think it’s still available on Netflix. Totally worth a watch for a (slightly surreal) Japanese desserts masterclass.
Ribbon stage achieved with a hand mixer, but using an Italian low protein flour (Molino Bongiovanni Farina Di Grano Tenero Tipo 00 Media Forza was the only one I could get shipped to Austria. Btw in Austria there’s several varieties of white sugar, including very fine ‘baker’s sugar’) and (surprisingly) it turned out perfect. I dropped it 2x, perhaps that has made up for the missing power of a kitchenaid? Thank you for being so obsessive about dissecting the techniques!
Thank you so much for this! I've really struggled with genoise in the past, but I made two sponges today and both came out perfect! I had a weird problem with my second attempt though - the eggs and sugar just wouldn't beat to ribbon stage. They went pale and increased in volume but stayed really liquid, which was really confusing because the first time they came up within a few minutes. I beat them consistently for 20 minutes before giving up and starting again with new eggs. The new eggs got to ribbon stage within a few minutes like the first, so I think my technique must be ok (NB using an electric hand whisk) so I'm not sure what could have caused this? The only thing I know I did differently was put the sugar in the bowl first, and I had washed the bowl between batches but I dried it thoroughly. Any ideas? Thanks x
Hi Nicola! I'm not sure if this has been discussed in the newsletter at some point...is there anything one should know about baking genoise in a sheet pan instead of a cake pan? I expect the baking time to be vastly different, but other than that–any pointers? I've never baked cake in a sheet pan and I really want to try it!
Hey zak! Yes I have done it - it works so well! For a standard 40 x 27cm baking tray I use a 3 egg genoise batch. For the smaller swiss roll pans that are here in the UK, a 3 egg genoise is better. To bake, check after 15 minutes, but it could take up to 20-22 depending on your oven. I always press the cake to see if it feels 'fizzy' - a sign of there being unbaked batter. I also wrote about a fluffy fatless sponge in this edition which is baked in sheets: https://kitchenprojects.substack.com/p/kp-the-jelly-and-custard-cake
It's a slightly different mix but does a great job in cakes!
Hey Nicola, I’m about to trial this for a wedding cake I’m making in may (alike to swedish midsommar cake) and wondered if you could confirm your 3 egg vs 3 egg in comment above? Did you mean 4 and 3 or 3 and 2 or indeed both 3? Planning to use 8x12 and double them up to make it 16x12 in final assembly. Thanks!
Hi, lovely post! however, my cake wasn't a success. Tired it twice and both times it had a rubbery bottom layer :(. How do I get it right? please help.
NOOOO this is so sad! Right, I would reduce the butter as this stage can be where you loose air. It could also just be a case of the folding. I wish I could be there in the kitchen with you to help you fold! That ULTRA GENTLE 'D' motion is where its at. My genoise skills definitely improved with practice.
I know that can be really boring and annoying though when it's so disappointing when it doesn't turn out!
Could you use olive oil instead? I have seen olive oil chiffons and also chiffon cakes with more eggs 8 and no butter or oil? Why is that possible
HI! Sorry for the delay. Yes you can make fatless sponges for sure - well, they aren't totally fatless since the yolks are bringing that element. You can also use oil, yes, which brings a slightly different texture and flavour. I do an olive oil genoise in my citrus cake recipe!
Hi Nicola! How far in advance can you decorate this cake? Or how long can you leave it in the fridge before cutting it? Is 24 hours too long?
IM SO SORRY THIS IS LITERALLY A YEAR LATE. You can make well in advance! Happy for at least 24 hours - even better since the flavours meld. So sorry Megan xxxx
Thank you so much for taking the time to make this super detailed recipe, along with a fascinating interview! I tried making this cake pretty much straight away, but I'm afraid I still can't make a genoese! I followed everything, but my cake had a slightly dense layer at the bottom (overmixing) along with unfolded flour pockets throughout (undermixing). I have no idea how I managed that, but I think I'll just have to accept I can't make genoese and move to Tibet to farm goats or something...
ELISHA we need to make this together. You can do it. Im thinking about trialling a “pastry personal trainer” 1 on 1 service so watch this space!
love this idea....my pastry rubbish!
I'll see you in Tibet! I've tried twice now and had the same problem- rubber disc at the bottom and lumps of flour throughout 😬. I'm going to try and slice the bottoms off and stack it up anyway. I just want to eat cake already!
did you figure out the reason? I have just tried it the second time and again - rubber disc at the bottom, no flour lumps for me this time. though I did notice, that (I baked in two tins) the tin that got the "lower half" of my dough mixture, had more rubber disc than the other one. I just don't quite understand where I am going wrong.
This makes me feel better than I'm not the only person in the world who can't make genoese!
I had the same problem!! I wonder if I didn’t do the liaison batter quite right? I’ve made other genoise and haven’t had the same issue. I also wonder whether it’s becAuse there is less sugar in this recipe so it is less forgiving? Not sure!
The interview with Chef Ayako was so interesting and can’t wait to try as many Fuwa Fuwa Japanese treats as possible!
Isn’t it so interesting? She’s opened my eyes so much!
LOVED the interview! What a beautiful newsletter!
Thank you so much. Really enjoyed this one
ELISHA......I had the exact same issue! I was being as gentle as possible with the folding and yet somehow over and under mixed the ingredients together.
While I'm sad both of our cakes didn't exactly work out, I'm glad I wasn't he only one, haha.
We can comfort each other about our failed cakes! I ate the edges...at least they still tasted nice 😂
Are you familiar with Kantaro, the Sweet Toothed Salaryman? I think it’s still available on Netflix. Totally worth a watch for a (slightly surreal) Japanese desserts masterclass.
Hi ! Love this so much! I was wondering in which newsletter can i find information about folding flour in a mixer or with a whisk?
Ribbon stage achieved with a hand mixer, but using an Italian low protein flour (Molino Bongiovanni Farina Di Grano Tenero Tipo 00 Media Forza was the only one I could get shipped to Austria. Btw in Austria there’s several varieties of white sugar, including very fine ‘baker’s sugar’) and (surprisingly) it turned out perfect. I dropped it 2x, perhaps that has made up for the missing power of a kitchenaid? Thank you for being so obsessive about dissecting the techniques!
Thank you so much for this! I've really struggled with genoise in the past, but I made two sponges today and both came out perfect! I had a weird problem with my second attempt though - the eggs and sugar just wouldn't beat to ribbon stage. They went pale and increased in volume but stayed really liquid, which was really confusing because the first time they came up within a few minutes. I beat them consistently for 20 minutes before giving up and starting again with new eggs. The new eggs got to ribbon stage within a few minutes like the first, so I think my technique must be ok (NB using an electric hand whisk) so I'm not sure what could have caused this? The only thing I know I did differently was put the sugar in the bowl first, and I had washed the bowl between batches but I dried it thoroughly. Any ideas? Thanks x
Doesn’t look like it’s even going to rise now. It’s been in the oven for 8
Minutes and I’m just standing here anxiously watching it
I’m a little worried as everything looked super fluffy and puffy until I folded the butter in and then it deflated dramatically!!!
I'm so excited to make this! Question, before serving would you recommend bringing it up to room temp?
Nicola, could you make this with GF flour at all!